Welcome to People Behind the Meeples, a series of interviews with indie game designers. Here you'll find out more than you ever wanted to know about the people who make the best games that you may or may not have heard of before. If you'd like to be featured, head over to http://gjjgames.blogspot.com/p/game-designer-interview-questionnaire.html and fill out the questionnaire! You can find all the interviews here: People Behind the Meeples.
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| Name: | Ryan Ziegler |
|---|---|
| Email: | ryan@oakheartgames.com |
| Location: | Milwaukee, Wisconsin |
| Day Job: | I sell lumber and wood packaging. |
| Designing: | Two to five years. |
| Webpage: | meatsweatsgame.com,earthfiregames.com, and oakheartgames.com |
| BGG: | stormnexus |
| Facebook: | @meatsweatsgame, @earthfiregames, and @oakheartgames |
| Twitter: | @meatsweatsgame, @earthfiregames, and @oakheartgames |
| Find my games at: | Only one running on kickstarter right now: Meat Sweats the Game |
Ryan Ziegler
Interviewed on: 11/21/2019
Last week we met Evan, part of the team that brought us Meat Sweats the Game (currently on Kickstarter). This week we meet the other half of that team, Ryan. Ryan Ziegler hails from Milwaukee (we've crossed paths at Protospiels before, but I don't think we've ever played games together), where he designs and plays board games with his daughters and Evan. Read on to learn more about Ryan and his current projects.
Some Basics
Tell me a bit about yourself.
How long have you been designing tabletop games?
Two to five years.
Why did you start designing tabletop games?
I love how games can bring people together. I'm also a creative person by nature, and a problem solver. I'm often accused of Trying to fix things that are broken, because I always believe there's a better way. There’s always a better way, we just don’t know it yet.
What game or games are you currently working on?
I'm working on several games with my best friend through high school, college, and adult life... Evan Teska. We tend to work on games when we hang out with our families. Our most active project is Meat Sweats because we're looking to crowd fund this month (probably live during my interview) December 2019. Lots going on with marketing (not game design) right now, but it's still been hard to not work on games as we try to stay focused on this game launch.
We are also working on a number of games set in our Argilkin Universe. Argilkin are an ancient, immortal god-like race born from Origin supernova. They create stars, solar systems, worlds and galaxies... Adding sentient (often magical) life as they travel the universe. The first game in this series is called "Ages" and got so large and ambitious that we will break it into several releases of 2 player games that can be combined to allow for 3 or 4 player games as well, but with different magics, races, and terrains. The goal was to create an infinitely replayable game with many variables while maintaining fun and balance – we’re biased, but it’s our favorite game. We took a step back from that game to design a much lighter game called Worldbuilders.
Independently, I have designed (not published) several abstract games, my favorites of which are Bolster and Emperor. I have also made great progress on a magical combat game working title, "Wizard Dice" that I've tested and improved at a couple of Protospiel events – it combines elements of hand management (spells that bend the rules), social manipulation (don’t attack me, attack him because…), and the use of dice as elemental resources, health, and attack/defense strength.
I’ve also designed a couple of games with my daughters that have only been produced for ourselves to play, but one day hope to reevaluate their potential.
Have you designed any games that have been published?
Not yet.
What is your day job?
Well, let me preface my answer with a game reference. When we play Dungeons and Dragons or Pathfinder, I’m always a Druid – always. I’m a tree-hugging, druid in my heart of hearts, there is real beauty and magic in the natural world. I love trees and find myself at peace in forests. Redwood forests in particular amaze me – trees alive for thousands of years – we can’t begin to imagine what they’ve “seen”. So am I a conservation warden? A park ranger? A tour guide? What is my day job???
I sell lumber and wood packaging. Yes, you may question my sanity. I’m a tree-hugging druid that sells tree corpses. Ironically, I have found a place where my creativity and love of trees overlap because I redesign and sell wood packaging to manufacturing companies that need to send their heavy products around the world. This would happen regardless of my involvement. My job lets me find and reduce wood waste that would have otherwise gone on for decades, killing many more trees than if I had chosen a different career path. My favorite (recurring) experience at new customers is hearing “we’ve been doing it this way for X years” because I know that’s an opportunity to reevaluate, reduce, and reinvent a better way to ship their product moving forward (while killing less trees!).
Your Gaming Tastes
My readers would like to know more about you as a gamer.
Where do you prefer to play games?
At a table. Seriously though, my dad gave me a rustic, 2-player cherry, log board game table that he had been neglecting for years. I use it 1000% more than he ever did, and it’s seen hundreds of plays. It’s in the background of most of my Instagram photos @oakheartgames
Who do you normally game with?
My daughters and Evan (co-game designer), almost exclusively.
If you were to invite a few friends together for game night tonight, what games would you play?
Pathfinder or Meat Sweats! When I get the chance to have more people around the table, I want to spend hours doing it.
And what snacks would you eat?
Alcohol, meat, and cheese. It’s like we’re from Wisconsin or something.
Do you like to have music playing while you play games? If so, what kind?
Not usually. I'm a rare person that prefers silence to almost anything. Unless it's the sound of my own voice, of course.
What’s your favorite FLGS?
At the risk of being stoned, I tend to shop remotely… relying heavily on declared mechanics, theme, quality of the art, and reviews on BGG. I love Amazon and Coolstuffinc.com
What is your current favorite game? Least favorite that you still enjoy? Worst game you ever played?
I love relatively quick games that can be replayed over and over. So games that offer variability are higher on my list. I love Imhotep, Tzaar, Acquire, and Sellswords to name a few – the setup and gameplay on those games are always new and different. I also enjoy social combat games like Bang the Dice game, cash and guns, and Good cop bad cop... But rarely get enough people together. Least favorite games that I still enjoy would be Neuroshima Hex, Dixit, and Mancala. I loathe Exploding Kittens, and Time Stories.
What is your favorite game mechanic? How about your least favorite?
I love social manipulation and abstract strategy games... Which are so very different, but equally enjoyable to me. I also enjoy rolling dice, but prefer the perfect information of abstract games. My least favorite mechanics would be roll-to-move, and any mechanic that involves math. Math isn’t fun. I also generally dislike cooperative games– that might not be a mechanic though.
What’s your favorite game that you just can’t ever seem to get to the table?
Pathfinder. But with board games, probably Gloomhaven, which everyone knows and Catacombs. Catacombs is an RPG-like dexterity game for a handful of people – it’s really cool and you should check it out if you haven’t heard of it.
What styles of games do you play?
I like to play
Board Games, Card Games, Miniatures Games, RPG Games, Video Games
Do you design different styles of games than what you play?
I like to design
Board Games, Card Games, RPG Games
OK, here's a pretty polarizing game. Do you like and play Cards Against Humanity?
No
You as a Designer
OK, now the bit that sets you apart from the typical gamer. Let's find out about you as a game designer.
When you design games, do you come up with a theme first and build the mechanics around that? Or do you come up with mechanics and then add a theme? Or something else?
Games never seem to go in the direction I want them to at first. For example, Meat Sweats (live on Kickstarter) started out as a push your luck dice game. It turned into a take-that card game. Evan (co-designer) is usually my muse in that he will say something like “MEAT DICE, GO!” and I create the core mechanics and rules… then we play, tweak, repeat. The Ages game I mentioned was supposed to be a dice builder, I think… it turned into a meeple combat and card-driven 4X territory control game (eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, and eXterminate). So in those two examples, I’d say we do a combination of both theme and mechanics, but the mechanics are more fluid than the theme if they don’t “work” with what we’re creating.
Have you ever entered or won a game design competition?
Evan and I entered a competition for an escape room game on The Game Crafter website. We created a group-memory game called “Trapped! Bermuda Triangle”. While we were finalists, it turns out we didn’t follow a couple of the rules. Oops, I never have been one for rules.
I also designed a game for the Hook Box contest with my daughter called “Infinity Plus One”, but was unable to submit due to a technical difficulty on the site. I ended up just printing it for our family and we still play it occasionally.
Do you have a current favorite game designer or idol?
I’m a huge fan of Kris Burm (GIPF Project).
Where or when or how do you get your inspiration or come up with your best ideas?
It would be a combination of Alcohol, down time, and my Muse.
How do you go about playtesting your games?
Usually playtest with my family and friends until it’s at a point we need real outside feedback, then we go to a local Protospiel event, or First Exposure Playtest Hall at GenCon.
Do you like to work alone or as part of a team? Co-designers, artists, etc.?
Technically, I’ve designed more games solo, but I have enjoyed designing games with co-designer Evan Teska more.
As far as artists go, we’ve worked with Lane Brown, whose art is unbelievably beautiful. He is doing all the art for our Worldbuilders and Ages games in the Argilkin universe. He was able to capture unusual races we held only in our minds and bring them to life in amazing landscapes. We worked with Matt Franklin on the current Meat Sweats game, which has been great simple characters for the unique character power cards as well as the various meats. I feel Matt’s art has really brought a fun addition to the game. I hope we get some takers on the custom character card reward level so we can work with Matt on some more fun art.
What do you feel is your biggest challenge as a game designer?
Focus, Time and Networking. I’m a highly creative person and ideas come to me regularly. I have to finalize and complete a design before moving onto the next three. I’d like to spend time designing, testing, and sharing… but family and work come first. Finally, I spend so much time networking in my real job that I’m networked out by the time I get to conventions and I just want to experience what is going on, rather than “work”.
If you could design a game within any IP, what would it be?
Oh this is a great question. I would love to bring some of my favorite fantasy author’s worlds and/or characters to life in a board game. Working with a phenomenal artist and setting up some epic landscape-style games would be amazing. I love a beautiful game. I love fantasy worlds. In no particular order, I’d love to design a game for: Brandon Sanderson’s (anything) Stormlight Archives – maybe doing something with the Parshendi and the Plateaus/bridge crews territory control; Joe Abercrombie’s First Law Series is based in a cold world of epic gritty dialog and tragic characters the “north” would be a great game setting; Brent Weeks’s Lightbringer Series could be a remarkable color-based game of magical combat; C.S. Friedman’s Coldfire Trilogy could be an amazing exploration game with the unique planet Erna with its various Fae energies; and finally, I’d say Peter Brett’s Demon Cycle would make a great territory control game humans vs. demons – maybe even a two part series with the surface and the core – so many wards and symbols in this series could make for some interesting art and mechanics.
What do you wish someone had told you a long time ago about designing games?
I don’t know what they should have told me yet.
What advice would you like to share about designing games?
Don’t worry about publishing or making a career out of it if you’re having fun and making memories – even if your games are terrible (some of mine are broken heaps until I can return to them), let the creativity flow.
Would you like to tell my readers what games you're working on and how far along they are?
This is what I have currently crowdfunding:
Meat Sweats the Game (with Evan Teska)
I'm planning to crowdfund:
All of the games listed here eventually.
Games I feel are in the final development and tweaking stage are:
Argilkin: Spellbuilders (with Evan Teska), RPG Academy (with Evan Teska)
Games that I'm playtesting are:
Argilkin: Ages (with Evan Teska), All the Gold (Daughter’s game), Wizard Dice (working title), Emperor (abstract), Bolster (abstract), Gladiator Arena (working title)
Games that are in the early stages of development and beta testing are:
Argilkin: Worldbuilders (with Evan Teska) – just took this one back to the drawing board.
Are you a member of any Facebook or other design groups? (Game Maker’s Lab, Card and Board Game Developers Guild, etc.)
Too many to name here.
And the oddly personal, but harmless stuff…
OK, enough of the game stuff, let's find out what really makes you tick! These are the questions that I’m sure are on everyone’s minds!
Star Trek or Star Wars? Coke or Pepsi? VHS or Betamax?
Coke with Bacardi Oakheart – Mountain Dew (Pepsi) with Captain Morgan
What hobbies do you have besides tabletop games?
Travel, Hiking, Camping, Mineral collection
What is something you learned in the last week?
Always learning… too many things to list, and nothing interesting enough to share!
Favorite type of music? Books? Movies?
I like calm and meditative music, Epic Fantasy Audiobooks, and comedies or action movies.
What was the last book you read?
Currently reading “The Challenger Sale” by Matthew Dixon, but my last completed book was “Shadowmage” by Terry Mancour – I tend to read between 30 and 40 “epic” books per year via audio in my car while I’m driving. Audible is the best thing to happen to my smartphone.
Do you play any musical instruments?
I can memorize and play songs on the piano, but my sheet music skills are pretty sad. I almost played a scale on a trumpet once. I taught myself enough chords on a guitar to play/sing many popular songs, but my strumming skills are terrible. I took 20 years off from singing, but I just joined the Milwaukee Bach Chamber Choir conducted by Christine Flasch. I sing Bass/Baritone.
Tell us something about yourself that you think might surprise people.
In highschool, I shared 50/50 the lead role of Billy Bigelow in a musical called Carousel with my co-game-designer, Evan Teska.
Tell us about something crazy that you once did.
I once sled down a snowy 40’ tall spruce tree and survived.
Biggest accident that turned out awesome?
About 20 years ago I was sitting in my room when our house was struck by lightning. The lightning went down the chimney and into the ground, but for a split second, I could see through the walls as if they weren’t there. Having x-ray vision for about 1 second was awesome, but it has never returned.
Who is your idol?
Brandon Sanderson is an epic fantasy writing machine. He truly must have super powers. I’m also intrigued by Sadhguru, an Indian Yogi that created the Isha Foundation.
What would you do if you had a time machine?
As long as it was safe to do so, I’d jump back as far as I could and as far forward as I could, then I’d start filling in the gaps. I’d want to see what’s going on everywhere and everywhen. Seeing as the time machine would by its very nature manipulate the space-time continuum, it would also be able to take us to any place in space… so, the many planets in our solar system would all be fair game too. Sounds fun.
Are you an extrovert or introvert?
In highschool I was a 11/10 extrovert, in my late 30’s I’m more of an ambivert 6/10.
If you could be any superhero, which one would you be?
I am Groot.
Have any pets?
We have a rescue dog named Baby. She turned out to be much older than we thought, but she’s been a sweet addition to the family.
When the next asteroid hits Earth, causing the Yellowstone caldera to explode, California to fall into the ocean, the sea levels to rise, and the next ice age to set in, what current games or other pastimes do you think (or hope) will survive into the next era of human civilization? What do you hope is underneath that asteroid to be wiped out of the human consciousness forever?
In this scenario, I hope I had time to show my kids Yellowstone first – the paint pots and geysers are pretty cool, and I hope there are some redwood forests to the east half of California that make it through the calamity. I’d probably set to making games out of sticks and stones like they did in ancient times. I imagine Chess and Go will make it through, but I’d personally be preserving my GIPF project games, and my collection dice, DnD and Pathfinder books. I’d hope that our addiction to screens would be wiped out of the human consciousness forever. You know, let’s just make that addiction in general that gets wiped out.
If you’d like to send a shout out to anyone, anyone at all, here’s your chance (I can’t guarantee they’ll read this though):
Without Michelle, the love of my life and my wife of 16 years, I’d be lost with my head in the clouds probably in a forest monastery somewhere. Thanks for keeping me grounded and healthy- I just wished you like playing board games… any kind at all, really. Andrew, you’re the most persistent and capable problem solver at the things that interest you; thank you so much for your help with our Meat Sweats videos. I wish you too would play some analog games with your dad. Aveya, you’ve been my board gamer from the start. Thanks for pushing me to keep playing games, even when I’m tired after a long workday. I think you’ve gained genius level spatial skills from playing abstract strategy games with your dad since you were 3. How else could you beat me most of the time? Juli, you’re such an observant and smart little girl. You keep me young at heart playing Haba games when you should be sleeping (AM or PM) – We still need to finish that game of No Thank You Evil. Evan, my partner in boardgame collection crime, who’s not at all competitive – I have more games than you, and you’ll never catch up.
Just a Bit More
Thanks for answering all my crazy questions! Is there anything else you'd like to tell my readers?
Please check out Meat Sweats the Game on Kickstarter.
Thank you for reading this People Behind the Meeples indie game designer interview! You can find all the interviews here: People Behind the Meeples and if you'd like to be featured yourself, you can fill out the questionnaire here: http://gjjgames.blogspot.com/p/game-designer-interview-questionnaire.html
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